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[分享] Anthem Room Correction (ARC) - Multiple Subs/已更新

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發表於 2012-6-8 13:21:28 | 顯示全部樓層 |閱讀模式
本帖最後由 rklpoon 於 2012-6-12 13:50 編輯

香港家居一般地方陋狹,有錢佬住大屋另計,AV友玩雙十(或更多者)為數不多. 雙十可以提升量感,不同型號雙十更可互補長短,如Q姐最愛之SM(SVS郵筒+MK).

Anthem ARC 可以配合雙十玩家.AVS forum  Anthem MRX 個 post 有講multiple subs,現首先copy and paste原文(作者為Anthem坐館Bob Pariseau)如下,再加翻譯成中文,以供同好參考(如有錯漏,敬請指出,以正視聽):


"My advice is to see first if ARC gives you a satisfactory solution on its own, without any EQ from the sub system. Generally speaking it is better to do less processing if you can. You'll be able to tell from the ARC charts if things are looking good.

If you decide you want to run a sub EQ system as well, then be sure to set that up first (with ARC turned off), then run your ARC Measurement so that ARC can hear the modified output of the sub due to its EQ system. It has to be done in that order because only ARC can blend the output of the main speakers with the sub, and to do that effectively ARC has to hear what the sub will produce during normal listening -- i.e., its output as modified by the sub EQ you decided to use.

--------------------------------------

ARC works just fine with multiple subs. It hears them playing as a set. You must manually set up the distance for the subs (use the average distance if they are different), the volume for the subs, and the Polarity/Phase for the subs.

The trick to setting up volume, polarity and phase is to power only one sub at a time and set each in turn. Keep in mind that volume adds. So for example with 2 subs the rule of thumb is to set each to 72dB SPL (using the volume knob on each sub) which will result in roughly 75dB SPL when they are played together. ARC will do any fine adjustment necessary on the volume trim for the combo of subs.

Similarly when setting Phase, you power one sub at a time and adjust its Phase to work best with the main speakers -- typically using the Left Front speaker as the surrogate for all the speakers. Set distance and do your rough volume balancing first (so that you can better hear the subtle difference between correct and incorrect Phase).

Phase operates near the crossover frequencies whereas toggling Polarity is like reversing the wires to the sub -- i.e., it affects all frequencies. That means that inverting Polarity is not the same as swinging Phase around 180 degrees. Thus you should find the best Phase for each Polarity setting and then decide which combo of Polarity/Phase is working better.

Now with more than one sub you can have cancellation not only between the sub and the main speakers (through the crossover frequencies) but also between the subs themselves (across ALL bass frequencies). And that's where Polarity comes in. The rule of thumb is to use "normal" Polarity for a sub in the front of the room and "inverted" Polarity for a sub at the rear of the room -- because the cone of the sub is facing the other direction.

You can use the Quick Measure feature to see the raw output of each sub and the combo of subs. Use Quick Measure with one sub powered at a time to refine your choice of location for each sub. Keep in mind that if you MOVE a sub you also need to recheck your choice of best Phase setting for it. If you get a good Measured curve in Quick Measure for each sub, but see problems when all the subs are powered, then that indicates you are having cancellation between the subs. Try inverting Polarity in one sub -- being sure to also switch to the matching, alternate Phase setting you determined for that Polarity when the sub was tested against Left Front.

If your subs have Phase controls but not Polarity controls, then problems of cancellation between the subs may be something you can only fix by repositioning a sub. At bass frequencies, even inches can make a difference. And again, if you move a sub, you must redetermine the best Phase setting for it (against Left Front).

Now ARC hears all of your subs playing at the same time, so it will Measure any bass response problems due to cancellation between the subs and attempt to correct such problems. Which means you must wait to Measure for ARC until AFTER you have done the best you can setting location, Polarity and Phase for each sub. If despite your Polarity/Phase settings the Measured curve for the combo of the subs still looks too poor (something you should be able to see more quickly using Quick Measure with all subs powered) even though the output of the individual subs looks good, then you will need to investigate alternate positioning for at least one of the subs.

ARC does *NOT* hear Phase problems between the subs and the mains because the test tones for the subs and any given main speaker are never playing at the same time. So again, setting up Phase (after choosing distance, volume, and Polarity) for each sub in turn is something that you need to do yourself using a sub phase test track from a calibration disc. And again, you need to do this before doing your ARC Measurement as Phase adjustments for any sub will alter how that sub cancels against any other sub.

After you've set all that, and run ARC, and gotten good looking chart results, you can verify that everything is working correctly by running a crossover sweep test (e.g, from the AIX audio calibration Blu-Ray) using that Uploaded ARC solution. This runs a test tone up and down through the crossover frequencies. If the volume sounds constant to your ear as the frequency sweeps up and down past the crossover, *AND* if the green Calculated curve for the sub combo looks clean in your ARC solution, then you can feel confident that you have eliminated cancellation problems both between the subs and the mains and also between the subs themselves.
--Bob"


翻譯事小,手寫中文先辛苦,大家加分鼓勵下la,多謝,多謝.

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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 13:23:42 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 rklpoon 於 2012-6-10 17:23 編輯

先講單十:

首先無需用十仔個EQ,只行ARC,睇下效果如何,做少d processing效果理應更佳,可從ARC圖表引証.

若決定要用埋十仔個EQ,請先行十仔EQ(要關掉ARC),然後再行ARC收音,此次序可確保ARC"守尾門",將十仔同其他喇叭融合.
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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 13:24:15 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 rklpoon 於 2012-6-12 13:45 編輯
rklpoon 發表於 2012-6-8 13:23
hold.



1. 雙十/或更多隻十仔(以下簡稱雙十).

2. ARC可配合雙十,當佢地一SET過.要人手設定雙十距離,(如距離不同可用平均值).音壓及polarity/phase.

3. 竅門是每次只著一仔十仔黎調教,如雙十(兩隻)應各自調教音壓至72dB (用十仔VOLUME制),兩隻一齊開就會達致75dB(粗略計算).而ARC會微調整體會兩隻)十仔音壓.

4. 教phase一樣, 先教一隻, 教至與主喇叭(通常以左前置為參考點)達至最佳效果,要首先設定好距離與音量,以達至容易聽辨出正確與錯誤之相位.

5. Phase在X/O 頻段附近運行而Polarity開關則似+/-喇叭線掉轉影響全頻.故”反/inverting Polarity”不等於將Phase改至180度.故此要選擇每個Polarity之最佳phase, 之後再決定那一Polarity/Phase 組合為最佳.

6. 雙十不但會引致與主喇叭互相抵銷問題(cancellation problems,透過x/o頻段) 亦會與雙十之間產生互相抵銷.此 時Polarity起到作用,金科玉律是置於前方之十仔用Normal polarity, 後方十仔則用inverted polarity, 因為此時兩隻十仔的單元/cone是對望/對立的.

7. 可以用Quick Measure 睇下單十及雙十既收音(measured)圖表,開著逐隻十仔黎揀最佳位置.移動十仔位置會影響最佳”Phase Setting”.如Quick Measure顯示單一十仔條curve靚仔,打孖時唔靚則表示有互相抵銷情況出現.此時應嘗試invert其中一隻十之Polarity.

8. 如十仔只有Phase controls無Polarity Controls, 則雙十之間互相抵銷問題只可透過移位解決.就低頻而言,移動幾吋已足以構成改變,再重申,十仔移位後務要再調教與左前置之最佳Phase setting.

9. 當ARC聆聽你所有十仔同時運作時,會計算互相抵銷問題影響低頻曲線/bass response 從而嘗試修正該問題.此意味著你必須先行set 好每隻十位之最佳位置,Polarity及Phase方可執行ARC. 如每隻十仔單一輸出靚仔,但雙十收 音(measured) curve不靚,則意味你最少要研究改動最少其中一隻十仔位置.

10. ARC不能聽到雙十與主喇叭之間之Phase problem(因兩者之test tones 不會同時播放). 因此當較好距離,音量及Polarity先至著手做Phase setting,做時要選播較機碟之sub phase test track (測量十仔phase 段).而此程序要在ARC收音(Measurement)前執行,因Phase adjustment會被雙十互相抵銷而改變.

11. 做完上述所有行程以達致ARC條”靚 仔”curve upload 上去,你可跟手可用例如AIX audio calibration Blu-Ray黎播crossover sweep test 段,若此段之音量在x/o掃上掃落時聽到不變,及綠色個條ARC curve(即計算/calculated個條)望落靚仔,則你理應解決雙十之間及十仔與其他喇叭之間既互相抵銷問題( cancellation problems).

多謝閱讀/捧場/加分. 純粹翻譯,拋磚引玉,請各高手指教,有錯務請指出,以正視聽,3q.

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發表於 2012-6-8 14:11:19 | 顯示全部樓層
Poon兄真係麻煩晒你,俾Anthem用家一個大喜訉,
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發表於 2012-6-8 14:15:16 | 顯示全部樓層
有勞Anthem會長
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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 14:46:04 | 顯示全部樓層
Harry5 發表於 2012-6-8 14:11
Poon兄真係麻煩晒你,俾Anthem用家一個大喜訉,

乜說話,不過要大家俾小小耐性.

老細已炸型,話我晚晚係度寫論文(其實係手机/tab寫中文費時)同乜有咁多"慳d友"同你傾計/吹水.

你有神Q俠侶助陣,掂過碌蔗la,正所謂各師各法,殊路同歸.
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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 14:47:34 | 顯示全部樓層
gundamfix2005 發表於 2012-6-8 14:15
有勞Anthem會長

客氣,客氣,盡力而為la.
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發表於 2012-6-8 15:26:10 | 顯示全部樓層
唔玩雙十都支持下先
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發表於 2012-6-8 16:27:52 | 顯示全部樓層
會長,想請教一下我隻十仔是否要轉位? 20120608_160403.jpg
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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 16:33:53 | 顯示全部樓層
Lunchbox360 發表於 2012-6-8 16:27
會長,想請教一下我隻十仔是否要轉位?

有位走可以試下,改善50-60Hz"valley/深谷",可以用Quick Measure幫手,揀徐curve順滑d,寧有"peak/山峰",少valley.

BTW,用緊乜十?
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發表於 2012-6-8 16:35:16 | 顯示全部樓層
條curve 長期由70開始上到80,之後横行。
但我見其他師兄話應該由80開始横行,到120hz先開始向下走才完美?!
點set先會80開始?
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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 16:41:37 | 顯示全部樓層
Lunchbox360 發表於 2012-6-8 16:35
條curve 長期由70開始上到80,之後横行。
但我見其他師兄話應該由80開始横行,到120hz先開始向下走才完美? ...

用邊隻十仔?有無全家福相?
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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 16:43:23 | 顯示全部樓層
Lunchbox360 發表於 2012-6-8 16:35
條curve 長期由70開始上到80,之後横行。
但我見其他師兄話應該由80開始横行,到120hz先開始向下走才完美? ...

最好post埋ARC Target出黎,大家研究下.
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發表於 2012-6-8 17:57:38 | 顯示全部樓層
kk700 mkIII
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發表於 2012-6-8 18:06:31 | 顯示全部樓層
條線由70起行,並不是由80,那代表咩?
是否arc auto set 咗x/o 係70?!
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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 18:16:36 | 顯示全部樓層
Lunchbox360 發表於 2012-6-8 18:06
條線由70起行,並不是由80,那代表咩?
是否arc auto set 咗x/o 係70?!

你去ARC 行manual mode開番之前auto ARC個file(假設之前正路save左),再揀tools/target之類便可show target window,睇到auto ARC將每隻喇叭set? x/o.
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發表於 2012-6-8 18:35:04 | 顯示全部樓層
Lunchbox360 發表於 2012-6-8 18:06
條線由70起行,並不是由80,那代表咩?
是否arc auto set 咗x/o 係70?!

條線由70起行,並不是由80,那代表咩?70同80呢個係db
你隻十仔係由20hz-40hz相差左10db
在70hz開始衰減向下
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發表於 2012-6-8 18:39:17 | 顯示全部樓層
oic 真高深!
多謝你哋
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發表於 2012-6-8 18:43:55 | 顯示全部樓層
Lunchbox360 發表於 2012-6-8 18:39
oic 真高深!
多謝你哋

有位轉咪試下另一個位呢
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 樓主| 發表於 2012-6-8 18:52:53 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 rklpoon 於 2012-6-8 18:54 編輯
Lunchbox360 發表於 2012-6-8 18:39
oic 真高深!
多謝你哋


係Anthem較泠門,唔user friendly(相對日系机,要駁pc,無中文menu,又無得手改EQ)gei.
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