找回密碼
 新用戶註冊
搜索
熱搜: hifi av 音樂
樓主: Siuping

[分享] 我對「絕對相位」的看法

[複製鏈接]
發表於 2016-8-19 20:59:39 | 顯示全部樓層
ultramanzero 發表於 2016-8-19 15:38
咁又何來呢句呢?

"所有 Chesky CD 都反相,且要用光纖傳輸,不宜用同軸線或 AES/EBU平衡線"

陳Sir於另一條thread講過話原因係唔同廠的CD分別有44.1khz同44.075Khz兩個採樣率。

http://archiver.hiendy.com/hifif ... 150&pid=2467447
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2016-8-19 21:27:59 | 顯示全部樓層
天下第一刀 發表於 2016-8-19 19:37
用兩個如圖的20安開關﹐按電路圖接法聽相位﹐減少電子零件對聽感的影響。
...

刀哥回歸了...
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2016-8-19 22:06:53 | 顯示全部樓層

阿刀嗰啲睇得出係佢自己真係玩過嘅經驗, 你認唔認同係另一回事, 可能啲人見佢用電腦平價器材就睇佢唔起, 當佢瘋子, 一個鬧開其他人又鬧, 有如一犬吠聲, 百犬吠日.  但我唔會!

評分

1

查看全部評分

回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2016-8-20 00:54:26 | 顯示全部樓層
Good job……

評分

1

查看全部評分

回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2016-8-20 02:03:56 | 顯示全部樓層
GREENSPAN 發表於 2016-8-19 22:06
阿刀嗰啲睇得出係佢自己真係玩過嘅經驗, 你認唔認同係另一回事, 可能啲人見佢用電腦平價器材就睇佢唔起,  ...

真係?但佢根本就係國產凌凌柒裡那位聞西,啊,全名係達⋯⋯聞西。正職係研究所所做事,畀人研究嗰個!我真係以事論事,並無針對佢。
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2016-8-20 09:52:08 | 顯示全部樓層
多謝siuping兄

評分

1

查看全部評分

回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2016-8-20 13:29:42 | 顯示全部樓層
hitimfuk 發表於 2016-8-19 20:59
陳Sir於另一條thread講過話原因係唔同廠的CD分別有44.1khz同44.075Khz兩個採樣率。

http://archiver.hie ...

系同厂的CD分别有44.1khz同44.075Khz及44.1075等多个采样率,一般草民或贵族用原子钟都没办法解决;只有用专业HIFI解码加专业录音时钟解决相位同步问题。
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2017-8-18 19:08:14 | 顯示全部樓層
關於相位。我有如下的一個想法:如果從聲音在空氣中的形成的震動模式來說相位是代表空氣份子的compression同decompression 形成有很多的notes同anti-notes 。改變相位就會改變了notes 同anti-notes的位置。這個也因為耹聽的地方的acoustics 影響所以每度地方聆聽都不同。希望師兄們指正一下。
回復

使用道具 舉報

 樓主| 發表於 2017-8-20 04:52:31 | 顯示全部樓層
petermok387 發表於 2017-8-18 19:08
關於相位。我有如下的一個想法:如果從聲音在空氣中的形成的震動模式來說相位是代表空氣份子的compression ...

我很同意不同耹聽環境的acoustic 處理也會影響結果,事實上整個重播系統當中亦有很多變數影響你對相位的看法,所以如果你主要是目的為本,最緊要聽首好歌,不尋求太多學術或原因,按個掣就可以好聲,那就隨心所做…

如果真係想知隻碟有冇問題,想知自己的系統有冇問題需要改善,正如我之前所講,到頭來一切都是靠自己的耳朵去測別,不過以我到目前為止所得的經驗和體會,可能有很多以前被認為反相了的錄音(我所指主要係數碼制作) ,在另一些系統當中重播時會有新結果…
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2017-8-20 10:45:36 | 顯示全部樓層
Siuping 發表於 2017-8-20 04:52
我很同意不同耹聽環境的acoustic 處理也會影響結果,事實上整個重播系統當中亦有很多變數影響你對相位的 ...

我想绝对相位只有在真實演出时存在。经録取及重播時已经变化很大。所以有錄音公司用反相録音亦有其他公司用正相録音。最緊得出来的的结果是接近绝对相位。因为声能在
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2017-8-22 09:16:29 | 顯示全部樓層
This was a post by Peter Mok 387 in another thread:

“””Hi Momei, I found the sound energy in my room have a standing wave in the mid-frequency on the right hand side between me and the right speaker and distorted the sound image. If I switch on the Phase button in the DAC, the Standing Wave will disappear and the sound image become better. However, there are peaks in the upper frequency range and the sound quality drops. I think the Phase change have changed the location of Standing Wave as well as the Notes and Anti-notes.

Subsequently, I switch back the phase button to normal and the Standing Wave re-appear at the same location and the peaks disappear too. Now I use some diffuser putting on the floor at the Standing Wave located area to overcome the Standing Wave and find the sound image as well as the sound quality become better.

Do you have a scientific explanation to this finding or it is only a placebo effect? “”
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2017-8-22 09:19:23 | 顯示全部樓層
momei 發表於 2017-8-22 09:16
This was a post by Peter Mok 387 in another thread:

“””Hi Momei, I found the sound energy in my  ...

Hi Peter,
Your question opens the Pandora box and incites more questions than answers. As I see it there are two parts in your question : a. What you observed was placebo effect or not, and b. If not, is there a "scientific" explanation to what you observed.
I do not see myself having enough knowledge and capability to provide definitive answers to part b. Rather I would list points relating to it and I believe different people have their own views on these points. Deal with the easier part a first.
Part a. Good that you more or less have solved the issue of image impairment and high frequency irritation (possibly ringing and compression induced distortion to me).
Was it placebo effect (to me that means imagining the effect rather than it actually being there)?
To find out:
*you remove the diffuser and have another person operate the phase switch of the DAC playing the SAME track. On Off On On Off On etc. Make sure you won't know there is a consecutive On On or Off Off such that you may guess it is On Off instead of On On or Off Off. If you are able to identify correctly over 70% of the On and Off, it is most likely Not placebo.
*you install the diffuser,  play the SAME track and repeat the On Off and identification operation again. Tell us what you observe. Any more image impairment and high frequency irritation in both On and Off positions?
*if you have the 2017 HiFi Show CD, play track 5 La Campanella and repeat the two operations above, on/off phase switch and with/without diffuser. In my system, I have the violinist with a focused image and standing in centre slightly in front of the speaker plane whilst the orchestra is placed behind him a foot or two, extending to the back wall and two side walls. I think you would discern at least two different phenomena in your two operations. The image of the violinist: the better one has a more focused and compact image whilst the other one, more diffused and larger. Soundstage of all the performers: the better one had all of them more forward whilst the other have all of them pushed back to the wall.
The two better ones should go hand in hand and indicate positive absolute phase.
*if you would like to obtain more experience about absolute phase, get hold of someone who has a DAC with phase switch and have it brought to your place in substitution of your present one. Repeat the same operations and you may have different observations. Why? Because usually such a phase switch is merely a cheap add on without full devotion and engineering, it being an ancillary to the DAC that some owners do not even use at all. One type of phase switch may change the phase in the digital domain, augmenting the algorithm whilst another may change it in the analogue domain.
*want to experience more? Take two types of CDs, one in your system showing positive absolute phase and the other negative absolute phase, and your DAC with phase switch to your friend's place. Carry out the two operations. You may even find your friend's system has a different absolute phase to yours.
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2017-8-22 10:25:04 | 顯示全部樓層
其實有些喇叭設計就是個別單元不同absolute phase

例如wilson audio 的中音單元就是反相
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2019-2-8 17:52:15 | 顯示全部樓層
wilmerworkshop 發表於 2016-8-18 18:59
當年神級前級 First Sound,用 SRPP 線路,廠方講明反相,前級亦有相位掣,但係原廠説明書依然講明最完善 ...

有D 係睇唔明, 有D 係唔肯學, 有D 係只識上網,只鸚鵡學舌,連對錯都唔識分。有些out 了的知識又唔知道。

今次我實俾人打頭了。

評分

3

查看全部評分

回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2019-2-8 17:54:25 | 顯示全部樓層
eds60 發表於 2016-8-19 01:40
同呢道一樣,技術性和知識性的文章睇的人唔多。 開個箱乜都冇講就大把人睇。   ...

我非常同意 。但是Hiendy 已比其他的好,近來又多了一些討論。希望可以持續下去。

評分

3

查看全部評分

回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2019-2-8 20:49:46 | 顯示全部樓層
greenleo 發表於 2019-2-8 17:52
有D 係睇唔明, 有D 係唔肯學, 有D 係只識上網,只鸚鵡學舌,連對錯都唔識分。有些out 了的知識又唔知道 ...

“今次我實俾人打頭了。”....

至少小弟不會。
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2019-2-8 20:50:42 | 顯示全部樓層
greenleo 發表於 2019-2-8 17:54
我非常同意  。但是Hiendy 已比其他的好,近來又多了一些討論。希望可以持續下去。 ...

Support Hiendy !

回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2019-2-9 12:20:49 | 顯示全部樓層
koalakoala 發表於 2017-8-22 10:25
其實有些喇叭設計就是個別單元不同absolute phase

例如wilson audio 的中音單元就是反相 ...

你講嘅係同分頻器設計有關,唔係表面上隻單元反相咁簡單,自己 Google 爬文研究吓
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2019-2-9 16:44:59 | 顯示全部樓層
廠方以前有簡單講過低音反射設計的問題,低音80hz以下大部份是反射出來的反相聲波,所以全正相連接會與中音單元相抵消,少了聲
回復

使用道具 舉報

發表於 2019-2-11 11:17:38 | 顯示全部樓層
理你正相定反相,商業決定好聲就賣得
回復

使用道具 舉報

您需要登錄後才可以回帖 登錄 | 新用戶註冊

本版積分規則

Archiver|小黑屋|聯絡我們|刊登廣告|Hiendy.com 影音俱樂部 一個屬於音響愛好者的家

GMT+8, 2025-10-19 03:06 , Processed in 0.101069 second(s), 21 queries .

Powered by Discuz! X3.5

© 2001-2024 Discuz! Team.

快速回復 返回頂部 返回列表