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[CAS] 市面上用乜pc接dac 最好?

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 樓主| 發表於 2018-5-25 20:24:20 | 顯示全部樓層
spang123 發表於 2018-5-25 20:19
雖然這CPU應該是6W,但追求極致優美音質的CAS發燒友,一般都不會使用laptop,因為認為laptop的內置顯示屏 ...

無顯示屏,how to chose song...
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 樓主| 發表於 2018-5-25 20:55:55 | 顯示全部樓層
spang123 發表於 2018-5-25 19:37
當然有啦,以下的網站連結是最新的6W Intel CPU:
http://technews.tw/2017/12/12/he-new-intel-pentium- ...

Intel® Core™ m3 lower than n5000?
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發表於 2018-5-25 21:15:12 | 顯示全部樓層
U用低耗定高效,無特定標準,好視乎用家點樣玩重播。如果只係簡單做server派歌,低耗低速嘅效能已經綽綽有餘,兼發出嘅高頻EMI干擾會較低。如果用家係用real time DSP做real time upsampling嘅,會傾向用最高效能嘅U,最高效能嘅RAM,最穩定嘅底板,最快嘅介面,務求將latency減到最低。

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發表於 2018-5-25 21:23:57 | 顯示全部樓層
diamondblack 發表於 2018-5-25 21:15
U用低耗定高效,無特定標準,好視乎用家點樣玩重播。如果只係簡單做server派歌,低耗低速嘅效能已經綽綽有 ...

Exactly......
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發表於 2018-5-25 21:52:30 來自手機 | 顯示全部樓層
alluget 發表於 2018-5-25 20:24
無顯示屏,how to chose song...

玩 cas,其實唔係用返同一部電腦揀歌的,以減少 software上的干擾。出嚟嘅聲會純淨多啲,背景黑多啲,details多啲,三頻出多啲 。
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 樓主| 發表於 2018-5-26 00:00:55 | 顯示全部樓層
diamondblack 發表於 2018-5-25 21:15
U用低耗定高效,無特定標準,好視乎用家點樣玩重播。如果只係簡單做server派歌,低耗低速嘅效能已經綽綽有 ...

好似chromebook不錯?
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發表於 2018-5-26 09:48:53 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 spang123 於 2018-5-26 09:55 編輯
alluget 發表於 2018-5-25 20:24
無顯示屏,how to chose song...


我於第38條帖文有提到啊。用網絡遙控方法,例如:用第二部電腦於本地網絡使用Remote Desktop Management(需要兩部電腦也是Windows OS),或手機/平板Apps(如果播放軟件支援),或Roon(亦是須要播放軟件支援)等。
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發表於 2018-5-26 10:31:15 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 spang123 於 2018-5-26 12:00 編輯
diamondblack 發表於 2018-5-25 21:15
U用低耗定高效,無特定標準,好視乎用家點樣玩重播。如果只係簡單做server派歌,低耗低速嘅效能已經綽綽有 ...


謝謝diamondblack兄的分享。基本上我也是同意的。雖然可能無特定標準,但亦是有原則可依循的。

我也於第30條帖文提到,是須要視乎選擇的播放軟件是否配合,才適當地配搭使用低功耗的CPU,不一定是不多於6W就一定好。如果勉強使用過低效能的CPU,真是有機會增加latency,劣化音質,弄巧反拙。但如果PC是直接接駁DAC,原則上都是在不影響播放軟件對PC的效能要求的前題下,盡可能選擇較低功耗的CPU或PC就較理想。其實,這是要取兩者的平衡點。

那就是為何我於第32條帖文提到使用HQPlayer及其NAA(雙PC播放模式)的優勝之處。

試想想如果能夠同時做到以下兩樣看似矛盾或衝突的要求,豈不是追求極致優美音質的CAS發燒友的理想呢?
1. 使用低功耗的設備(如低功耗CPU的PC或其他類似設備)連接DAC,以減低電磁波及電噪對DAC的直接干擾,影響音質。同時這PC又可作為音頻數據的緩存(buffer),以達致非同步(asynchronous)播放,進一步減少CAS影響播放的時間誤差。
2. 運用高效能的PC作升頻處理,以降低latency引致的音質劣化。優質的升頻處理(如HQPlayer)的確能夠提升音質。

HQPlayer的雙PC播放模式就可以幫助實現這魚與熊掌兼得的理想了。
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發表於 2018-5-26 12:08:32 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 blau.vol 於 2018-5-26 12:14 編輯

[quote]spang123 發表於 2018-5-26 10:31

HI spang hing,

sorry .... not really the case ,  the high frequency CPU with lower latency memory is always sound better. ....  For EMI or that kind of stuff,  low power CPU motherboard always got not really good onboard regulator on the otherhand.  

for high freq CPU,  with very good motherboard power design,  got little  noise generated by power regulator module on the other hand.  CPU is NOT the noise generator , but nomrally the regulator is.    so , CPU Maximum power consumption does not mean it comsume 100% current ALL the time ....  , on the other hand ,  for a high power system ,  it consumes less power in doing the same job.

  I did try to use single pc and dual pc mode to do comparison.


For SGMS alone and with a low power CPU HQNAA ,  SGMS sound better than with another PC running HQNAA running at low power CPU .  I did try the HQNAA running with trimmed Linux or trimmed Windows (5.8GB in total size WindowsOS).     So , 3 PCs working together for doing the test.

Best,
blau
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發表於 2018-5-26 12:36:50 | 顯示全部樓層
blau.vol 發表於 2018-5-26 12:08
[quote]spang123 發表於 2018-5-26 10:31

HI spang hing,

認同,低效能CPU因為用電量少而低干擾雖然係優勢,但絕對發揮唔到CAS既長處,要低干擾你點低得過數播專用主板 or CD機
CAS最重要反而係個playback software用得"幾盡" cpu 既processing power,包括指令集等等

當你隻software寫得好,呢D時候絕對係越高performance、越低I/O Latency既 hardware最好 etc, i9, optane SSD

呢個道理唔單只適用於performance hungry 既HQP,只要其它playback software有應用到cpu cache同intel 指令集都會一樣
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發表於 2018-5-26 13:38:30 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 spang123 於 2018-5-26 13:43 編輯
blau.vol 發表於 2018-5-26 12:08
[quote]spang123 發表於 2018-5-26 10:31

HI spang hing,


Hi Ben sir,

Thank you for your kind sharing and comment. But the test results that you mentioned is predictable.

First of all, we are talking about what PC is good for connection to DAC under the subject of this thread. Actually, I also wanted to mention the SGMS earlier in this thread. But, in fact, the SGMS is in a different league of higher rank when compared to PC, as I believe that its power supply and clocks must be highly modified and optimized to such an extent to provide the best possible SQ. Otherwise, it would not have such a considerable price tag. Therefore it may not be appropriate to use SGMS to compare with ordinary PC with modifications.

If you already have a SGMS, you simply do not need to connect it to a PC NAA, because the quality of sound signals from it is already better than PC, even though the PC is optimized by all the add on linear power supplies, usb card, and low power consumption motherboard, and etc. Therefore connecting the SGMS to a NAA will simply deteriorate the SQ because the NAA becomes the bottleneck affecting the SQ.

However, regarding the CPU power, it is usually a general indicator to the overall power consumption of the motherboard, which, in turn affects the power regulator module and other power consumption components that generate noise on the board. On the other hand, whether a low power motherboard got good onboard regulator or not depends on its design and the manufacturer. For example, Supermicro does have good low power motherboard that even off-shelf music server uses. Therefore selection of good motherboard is also an important factor affecting the final SQ.

Finally, I agree that low latency memory is always good, but whether high power consumption/ high frequency CPU sounds better depends on its application. I tend to believe that there should be proper balance between performance requirements and power consumption. If such a high power CPU is used in low performance requirements application like the HQPlayer NAA, I would believe it would do more harm than good. The analogy is that if someone drives a car of large engine cc capacity, it will bound to consume more gasoline when compared to a much smaller cc engine car, even though the driving distances are the same. So, the current and hence EMI/ electrical noise on the board are bound to be higher.

After all, I do not think it is appropriate to use SGMS in a test to compare with modified PC, because they are of different league. The SGMS is obviously of higher rank, isn't it?

Anyway, thanks again for your kind sharing.
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發表於 2018-5-26 13:52:38 | 顯示全部樓層
spang123 發表於 2018-5-26 13:38
Hi Ben sir,

Thank you for your kind sharing and comment. But the test results that you mentioned  ...

spang, SGMS in essence is a PC with a lot of modifications go to the software side. Just that you cannot find its chassis "off-the-shelf" doesn't mean it's not a PC.
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發表於 2018-5-26 14:49:43 | 顯示全部樓層
如果有玩開cas應該會好清楚SGMS係集各種traditonal DIY appoarch既普通pc

改電,改clock module, 改os,係最傳統玩法
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發表於 2018-5-26 15:05:28 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 spang123 於 2018-5-26 21:44 編輯
darkfrank 發表於 2018-5-26 12:36
認同,低效能CPU因為用電量少而低干擾雖然係優勢,但絕對發揮唔到CAS既長處,要低干擾你點低得過數播專用 ...


Darkfrank 兄:謝謝你的分享。我其實也十分認同你的分享,高效能、低latency硬件對優質及對硬件有要求的播放軟件來說,肯定是對音質起到重要的正面影響。所以,我在樓上的帖文,及其他樓主以前的帖文也提及,如果使用HQPlayer,也需要這高效能的PC作為雙PC播放模式的上游PC,才能發揮最佳的效果。

只是這帖文的標題是關於「乜PC接DAC最好」,我把重點比較集中提及直接連接DAC的那部PC而矣。關於這點,我仍然認為是需要在高效能及低功耗中取得適當的平衡,方為上策。

但如果是已經使用了大幅改善設計及優化了的軟硬件設備(即不是DIY小修小改),如SGMS(對此如有異議,可找Ben sir 查詢)等,這就另作別論。亦因此,SGMS亦不需要使用雙PC模式,也可達致非常優秀的音質效果。
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 樓主| 發表於 2018-6-20 17:23:10 | 顯示全部樓層
vhs 發表於 2018-5-17 13:17
If using Roon, any kind of PC will work well !

Why?係咩原理?ching
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發表於 2018-6-21 08:45:23 | 顯示全部樓層
One high speed PC is used as server and upsampling.

One Raspberry Pi is used as network audio adapter with minimum EMI.
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