Mcintosh MEN220

mlfan2012

kenho 發表於 2013-5-31 10:27
Dear 師兄，
相信你現在的設置效果應該是十分不錯呢 ，而且 MEN220 也是相當好用，不但可以處理 ...

Ken Sir,

I have been really enjoying what this magic gear ever brought me since day one.  However as you may notice that there are not many chings who will spend or at least are hesitated to invest rather then spending an outrageous amount of money for cables or room treatments.

Not everyone has an ideal room size and dimension with good sound treatment built as they wish. So they spend on cables and hope for the best. But never understood in long term, this MEN220 will ever save time and make big step forward for better sonic performance. My setup with the MEN220 cuts unwanted room mode as well as providing seamless sonic integration between my panels and the stereo subs in term of timing delay and frequency roll off.  It surely was a good investment to me.

kenho

mlfan2012 發表於 2013-5-31 13:34
Ken Sir,

I have been really enjoying what this magic gear ever brought me since day one.  Howeve ...

Dear 師兄，
完全同意呢 ，有時很多朋友洗了很多錢，買了不同品牌之貴價線，但駁在器材上卻只有很少的音效差別，小弟一聽之下發現存在很大的房間問題，這亦是先天性的不足，縱是強加不同的調聲器具，又更換一籃子貴線，連電源也搞了一大餐，卻只徒勞無功，更添來其他問題，此外又怕太大改動老婆大人不會高興
然而，就如以下的一個例子，何先生是一標準的 Hi Fi 發燒友，喜歡經常更換新器材的玩法，可是外於聆聽環境只有 80~90平方呎地方，不說是想要一個靚景深音場，就是連人聲結象的中位亦有很大的困難，因為器材擺放位置正是觸手可及，坐在椅上稍一伸前，手即可及機位，而且喇叭又擺得太近可聽到左、右聲道有點粘合，不是十分理想，二來何先生手頭上又存有好幾台不同的擴音器，放著不用又捨不得把它們賣走，的確是有點浪費。

就如上圖器材 ，一台是剛年頭購入的 MC275 50 ann. 金版，另一台是經典 MA6900G 的全球限量金版，上面有McIntosh 主席查理親筆簽名，而且機身號更為單字一個  6 號，這當然不捨不得賣掉它呢 。  於是小弟介紹他使用 MEN220，既可妥善處理房間聲場問題外，又可以利用電子分頻的 Bi-amp 玩法去進一步提升何先生的 Hi Fi 發燒層次，而且當然能夠善用一下他的其他致愛器材，一點也不浪費。 音源是 Meridian 808.2，以 RCA ~> audio note，再以 RCA ~> MEN220 以 500Hz 分頻 HF、 LF 輸出(接疊不超過10%)，以 XLR 分兩組，MC275 金版膽管機推 F.A 的高頻，MA6900G 的 Power 部份推 F.A 得中低頻，經過兩小時的執位佈線至開出聲音，五至六小時的反覆調較電子分頻之 High pass、Low pass，找到了最佳的分頻點竟和大多交響樂器如小提琴的 500~800 週分頻貼近，之後再修正一下房間聲場，到正式開聲，何先生即時目瞪口呆，衝口而出的第一句話：「這是陳列室的音效，不！比很多陳列室更超班！」言語之間彷似老淚稍來，看得小弟也啼笑皆非了。

然而，MEN220 的神奇功效在何先生家裏可說是行了翻天的改變，一個幾呎乘幾呎的天地竟有寬闊而深遠的景深聲場，而且三級跳升了原有的分析力度，準確程度至令線材掉配更加得心應手，此時此聲論價而言，合上雙眼耳朶評價可以說是似過百萬的級別，完全令人不敢相信這樣的音效竟來自眼前的一切矣。

mlfan2012

Ken Sir,

作为MEN220用家好快又轉眼三年. 小弟一向唔靠线材去提升器材性能, 無論乜牌子线材, 我只看重长短粗幼, 鸡定唔鸡, 有呢部嘢系度, 配合自己耐心细微调控高低频段, 或更甚者接入手提电脑再调出自己喜好嘅Voicing, 令整軆音质方面更上一層. 小弟推荐用家最好以biamp模式接入两台Poweramps 分别推高中,低 或 高, 中低频喇叭单元, 效果比较显著.

所觀得知何生聆聽面积不到百尺, 就算Ken Sir 唔補充描述加添men220後嘅效果, 小弟亦可领会到Ken Sir 所言并無夸大其词. 不明者不知, 只待一试为實.

Picture shown my current setup as of 04/2013

THX

mlfan2012 發表於 2013-5-30 16:49
Sorry for the delay. Been busy traveling around. Not much time staying home for my hobby.

As far  ...

Thanks very much for your sharing!

kenho

mlfan2012 發表於 2013-6-1 15:03
Ken Sir,

作为MEN220用家好快又轉眼三年. 小弟一向唔靠线材去提升器材性能, 無論乜牌子线材, 我只看重长 ...

Dear 師兄，
感謝支持呢 ，師兄所言甚是， Hi Fi 技術的確是要切身去感受才會容易明白箇中道理 ，很多時候是不能只靠三言兩語就能夠令人理解，馬上變成調較高手 ，就以小弟而言，算是已替人調較了音響三十來年，自問巳是飽歷蒼桑，實戰經驗不少 ，但每次遇上新的系統，也是只能說在臨場時才會知應怎樣去處理，絕不敢輕言定論，而且往往在每次設定中也總會有所得著 ，因為所有過程之中總是會出現很多意想不到的變化與異數，然而理論歸理論，事實歸事實， 巧如世事像棋局般變幻，我們每走一步都有不同的結果。
難怪 Hi Fi 發燒之路總是令人津津沉醉廢寢忘餐呢~~

kenho

THX 發表於 2013-6-4 17:54
Thanks very much for your sharing!

Dear 師兄，
謝謝你的支持

mlfan2012

Having the men220 for some time now. With its two way electronic xover as well as room correction set precisely. My stereo subs are seamlessly blending in with the main panels. It worths every penny to my investment.

kenho

mlfan2012 發表於 2013-7-1 04:14
Having the men220 for some time now. With its two way electronic xover as well as room correction se ...

Dear 師兄,
MEN220 實是一部性價比最高的 McIntosh 產品之一 ，而且實用性亦非常之高，可是由於大部份的朋友對其陌生，所以並不算是很熱門的型號，但當擁有與使用之後你又會十分欣賞它的功效表現，而馬上愛上了呢

mlfan2012

Thanks Ken sir for the score. I am a Mc freak and always keep myself up to any Mc news whenever it is available to public. I would not be surprised if Mc has ever planned for new room correction system soon, let's say, a MEN230, or 240....etc.

So far, I have spent quite sometime fine tuning my two ch system with help of the men220. Utilization of its main features room prefect and x-over are easy and simple.  The bottom end comes from the woofer is in fact the greatest interference to obtain an ideal frequency response, with this men220 installed between Pre and Poweramp, it creates better frequency curves or based on user's preferences which setting is to kill or reduce excessive room mode.

Ken Sir has ever seriously thought about setting up such system in a dedicated room where buyers can come and listen for themselves. I was at the TST shop year back and tested out your men220 setup, surprisingly I did not hear much different with or without the men220 connected to the signal path. My suggestion is to use it in biamp mode where a single or twin subs are used along with the main speakers. A proper set up is needed to demo such wonderful gear.

Since the men220 has no amplification processing of the signal, except to reduce or kill room mode as well as time delay adjustment, thus overall low-end db level will be decreased. As a result of less punchy on bottom end but better improvement of Mid high. I usually increase the volume on the Subs in order to balance out the output level to the main. Up to the memont, I have not been experiencing any boom boom effect that would prevent me from listening to my favorite tracks. Cheers!

mlfan2012

It would be good if the main speakers are biampable. Even better if the amp is used to drive the woofer units has its own volume control, that will balance out all driver units sonically IMO....

kenho

mlfan2012

Ken sir,

I am pleased exchanging user experience with you for Mcintosh. To be honest, I also learned a lot from you as well. I bought my favorite Mc gears without actual on site audition that most C-hings won't do that certainly. I read actual user reviews to finalize my purchase decision. For the men220 I bought years ago, it only took me few moment bring it home and set it up. Now I can easily flying through all the settings without reading the manual.

New users of men220 ought to be spending more time and listen until obtaining the proper setting for your listening habits. At first, it takes time and energy but Just like you said, once get to know how to deal with it, then you won't leave your room.

mlfan2012

Ken sir,

From what I can see here, the men220 isn't too common nor popular to most others. I was wondering how it has been selling in Southeast Asian countries. Would like to share my experience of using the men220. I wish you luck for selling more of this wonderful gear.

kenho

mlfan2012 發表於 2013-7-3 16:26
Ken sir,

From what I can see here, the men220 isn't too common nor popular to most others. I was w ...

Dear 師兄，
太客氣了，感謝你的支持呢
正是產品雖好，也需知音者支持，MEN220 之操作實是不太困難，但若再添一些對房間聲音特性理論的基礎知識配合，那就更加事半功倍，比如 setting 測量 mic 的擺放落點、Mic 架的擺法、Mic 咀與測量面的距離 .....等等。 例如，若 Mic 咀指向平面時若距離太遠，或多或少拾到的聲音數句會是跟頻率波長形成正比例，簡單的一點說；距離越遠，所拾取頻率之波長就是越長，亦即是代替拾到之頻率亦越低，那麼當檢測完畢之後，MEN220 的 'Filters' 有可能會瀘走較多之低頻，於是在聽感上就或多或或少變得過於單薄清淡了呢。
  因此，若然是不厭其煩的話，亦見意多作嘗試，或者可會有更理想合意之效果發揮呢。

mlfan2012

Ken sir,

I hear you what you are saying. My room isnt ideal for music listening in term of room size, dimension and layout. Not to mention I use full range panel speakers without woofer unit built-in, hence external sub-bass system must be used for bass extention if I really need it. It is all true that mic position and direction pointed are critical during measurements. Add to the height of mic stand is also determining what result you will get.

As I mentioned before. I stop obtaining further measurements when the system reachs little over 90% room knowleage. I wont tip-top the measurement to avoid excessive lowend filter being created resulting of shyout or thinner bass extention. Finally I use test track repeately play if the certain bass tone sound close to real and solid. Until every bit of tone is done and corrected, then I ll be seated and enjoy.

kenho

mlfan2012 發表於 2013-7-4 01:47
Ken sir,

I hear you what you are saying. My room isnt ideal for music listening in term of room si ...

Dear 師兄，
同意呢， 有時候在 MEN220 之房間認知度的佰份比上是不必要做到 over 95% 的，而若修正率太多，很有可能令處理後出來的音效太干淨，因為真實正常的聲音中是有一定之殘響和范音，與及本身聲響的自然滾降(即從聲音發生至聲音漸漸消細到完結的一個週期) ，若果滾落殘響和范音足夠，那在聽感上就像聽到三維的長、濶、高之大小了。
另外，亦可以 「呃尺」的方法去控制前方中位景深的深度聽感，距離 set 得越少；景深結象就越埋身，而距離 set 得越遠；景深結象就越遠，會有穿牆感覺 。  不過，別調整得太過份，否則整體相位會有所偏離，聲音便會有的怪怪，固此可少許少許的一點點慢慢地嘗試，定會使你有意外之驚喜呢

mlfan2012

Right at the moment, I am just only hooking up my sub bass system throuhg the LowPass. I leave the HiPass unused. ie, I did not connect my panels to the Hi Pass. In which setup and connections, it does give me better control for my CLS electrostat speakers in term of fully utilization of their full range panels. Don't be so simplicity, it works good to me without following straightly as the manual says.

kenho

mlfan2012 發表於 2013-7-5 17:00
Right at the moment, I am just only hooking up my sub bass system throuhg the LowPass. I leave the H ...

Dear 師兄，
那就十分之理想了呢

mlfan2012

Ken sir,

Got a question, what would you suggest using Lowpass or Lowpass Mono on output setting with sub? I am currently using stereo sub bass system, means one sub for each channel, but like to hear some comments from you. I don't think to many chings like me having the men220 being used with panel speakers. Thks a million!

kenho

mlfan2012 發表於 2013-7-6 15:31
Ken sir,

Got a question, what would you suggest using Lowpass or Lowpass Mono on output setting wi ...

Dear 師兄，
2 ch. Lowpass 一般是為了方便在二段電子分頻控制上使用，以高中頻段 H.F. 和中低頻段區分 L.F.，再加以控制曲線上、落之特性，以至匹配最佳之揚聲器的工作頻應特性。 然而放在外置雙聲道 Subwoofer 用也是 ok 的，而若 Subwoofer 口經上 15" 以上，見意使用 Lowpass Mono output 會比較容易處理，因為 Sub Wave 波長較大很容易發生對相 (同相雙消)的情況，這樣會使超低頻段互相底消，而 set Mono 之後當然會沒有了此等之問題，而且更能加強低頻部份的歸一感覺，這樣的做法是有點像 THX 的低頻管理系統，相對出錯和配合上少很多煩惱呢