Combat between CAS, LP and CD

Audiophilelp

For the sensation of being embraced by clap-hand sounds from audiences, my feeling is that the sounds should be mainly from the front as we can imagine the recordings should correspond to the stage where Eagles were actually facing the audiences. I wonder if Thomas's system is very sensitive in sound reproduction from any sound reflected from the back of stage or the room acoustic effect is really amazing.

I wish a try tonight tonight.

momei

Audiophilelp 發表於 2015-1-7 13:41
A very good read in this thread, I learned a lot here.

Concerned with the  Of Belafonte, do you guy ...

Hi Audiophilelp,
I am able to hear only Belafonte moving around but not standing up and sitting down.
When one looks at the album cover, one can see he holds a microphone in his hand, sort out taking it out from the microphone stand so as to enable him moving around the stage. There is also a hand-drawn stage photo, showing the voice microphones put on a stand and also two overhead ones. Can also see the microphones for recording the two acoustic guitars and the double bass. The two guitarists sit on high stools, the same type as that for the bass player.  

momei

Audiophilelp 發表於 2015-1-7 13:48
For the sensation of being embraced by clap-hand sounds from audiences, my feeling is that the sound ...

Hi Audiophilelp,
The recording venue of the Eagles live performance is outdoors. There should not be much reflection from the back of the stage. So my system reproducing the audience yells and handclaps from the back stage does not accord with the real life situation. They should be placed in front of the listener. What puzzled me is that the audience noises erupted whilst the Eagles were performing. Therefore the "correct" reproduction would be to have Don Henley and the other 3 guitarists placed at the plane of the speakers and the audience in between the speakers and the listener. I could not image a stereo system is able to do that, let alone having the audience engulfing the listener.

diamondblack

momei 發表於 2015-1-7 14:23
Hi Audiophilelp,
The recording venue of the Eagles live performance is outdoors. There should not  ...

Have you ever thought of that applause eruption was added from a separate recorded track (hopefully at the concert) after the singing and music parts were mixed? Have you ever thought of that resulting master of that live concert was just recorded live but everything was rearranged?

Audiophilelp

momei 發表於 2015-1-7 14:15
Hi Audiophilelp,
I am able to hear only Belafonte moving around but not standing up and sitting do ...

I suppose if Belafonte is singing with microphone on hand, his voice should always be in the middle. While he was singing with microphone hand-off, I think we should appreciate his position on stage.

Audiophilelp

diamondblack 發表於 2015-1-7 14:38
Have you ever thought of that applause eruption was added from a separate recorded track (hopefull ...

Yes, it is definitely possible but the feeling of being embraced by the applause is amazing to me.

diamondblack

Audiophilelp 發表於 2015-1-7 15:00
Yes, it is definitely possible but the feeling of being embraced by the applause is amazing to me. ...

If you asked me, the presentation of what we heard from the resulting records released was more like from the perspective of the Eagles on the stage, rather than from the audience.

momei

diamondblack 發表於 2015-1-7 14:38
Have you ever thought of that applause eruption was added from a separate recorded track (hopefull ...

Hi Diamondblack,
You are probably right. But even with such tampering, I do not think my system is able to reproduce the audience clapping appearing between me and the speakers. I have very limited exposure to top end systems, hence I am unable to imagine a stereo one is able to do that, let alone having it engulfing the listening seat as in a live concert.

momei

Audiophilelp 發表於 2015-1-7 14:55
I suppose if Belafonte is singing with microphone on hand, his voice should always be in the middl ...

Hi Audiophilep,
Strictly speaking, you have a point to say the voice should appear in the centre of our audio sound stage when there are two or three microphones overall. But when there are overhead microphones and others to capture musicians, the mix down to two channel may show movements of the singer.
In live concerts, when a singer uses a wireless mic nowadays, and sings from backstage behind the curtain whilst walking to the front, the audience is able to "hear" the gradually appearance even without looking at the stage.

momei

diamondblack 發表於 2015-1-7 15:04
If you asked me, the presentation of what we heard from the resulting records released was more li ...

Hi Diamondblack,
No, the perspective is from the audience and NOT from the performers.
If it were, for example, if I were Don Henley singing on stage, I would have the three guitarists beside me, Schmidt playing the bass behind and drummer there as well. Audience in front of me. With such scenario, the audience appear in the audio soundstage, Don Henley and guitarists at the plane of the listening seat and Schmidt and drummer at the back of the listening seat.
What Thomas hears is Don Henley et al are in the audio soundstage in front of the listener, only the audience engulf the listening seat. That is, sitting and hearing in same manner as in a live concert.

diamondblack

momei 發表於 2015-1-7 15:50
Hi Diamondblack,
No, the perspective is from the audience and NOT from the performers.
If it were, ...

After all, all I wanted to point out is the presentation of this recording is unnatural despite it's a live recording.

momei

diamondblack 發表於 2015-1-7 16:01
After all, all I wanted to point out is the presentation of this recording is unnatural despite it ...

Hi Diamondblack,
You are right that this track as presented has been tampered with.
As Thomas described what he heard from this track, the presentation accords with a real live performance that I am familiar with and I envy his system's capability.
It would be unnatural when a recording has performers engulfing the listener, except when it is made specially to create that effect.
That was why I asked Thomas to tell us how the 2L tracks fare in his system, that were recorded with performers sitting in a circle around microphones for 5 channels.  

ThomasLi@FB

momei 發表於 2015-1-7 13:12
Hi Thomas,
The 2L-090 (Souvenir) is an excellent recording. Don't miss it. It also has an LP versi ...

Do you mean this item? I have it in my shelf, never have a chance to listen to it.

These things happen. There are many discs that you brought and never get around to open it. This is one of them.

I shall open it and listen to it.

But I don't have 2L-090.

momei

ThomasLi@FB 發表於 2015-1-7 17:22
Do you mean this item? I have it in my shelf, never have a chance to listen to it.

These things h ...

Yes, Thomas, this is the album. I checked the 2L site just now because I bought the data file that did not come with album cover or box.
You listen to the first track of Simple Symphony. The second track has strings plucking throughout.

Audiophilelp

Back home and start playing

CAS combats LP

momei

Audiophilelp 發表於 2015-1-7 18:44
Back home and start playing

CAS combats LP

Looking forward to hearing the result and opinion of the combat between the Belafonte LP and CD that you are staging.  I note your have the Japanese version of the Eagles album. I have two, but both American.

momei

I do not know the Eagles album has been released in LP format.
Let me put forward a couple of guesses in regard to the differences between the LP and CD.
The large floor drum sound in the LP is in the centre, whereas in the CD it is on the left. Its impact and strength in the LP is less than that in the CD. Don Henley (singer) is in the centre in the LP but off centre in the CD. Soundstage of the LP is larger and images of individuals are more 3D. Voice, guitar are smoother in the LP but in the CD they are sharper and have more details. Audience clapping is in the centre in the LP but to the left in the CD. Neither one has it projected well beyond the plane of the two speakers, let alone to the listening seat.
Let me know which ones I guessed wrongly.

Audiophilelp

momei 發表於 2015-1-7 20:32
I do not know the Eagles album has been released in LP format.
Let me put forward a couple of guess ...

Both LPs are less edgely and more relaxing compared to corresponding files from CDs, especially the Belafonte.
Files are more analytical and quiet while LPs have more background noises. One should agree that LP has high dynamics and feel that the spectrum of music is wider.

For Eagles, I compared the "Hotel California ". Both LP and files have very similar sound images and location of instrument . The bass drum and chief vocal are essentially central, some percussion in the right and more guitar sound in the left. However, the layering effect of LP is slightly better, I feel the drum is more from the back. The applaus sound are wider in LP but I can only feel 180 degrees rather than 360 degrees.

For "Matilda " by Belafonte, LP is more noisy. Maybe at the time of recording the background noises was already high. LP gives a more vivid and real vocal sound of Balefonte. Most of time his voice is central except when he was not in front of microphone. The Hall effect from LP is slightly better.

Anyway, my comparison is not very representative. I think I have some improvement for LP system setup.A good LP playback is really a difficult task.

In general, LP is more comfortable , lively with bigger sound image.

leoking

Audiophilelp 發表於 2015-1-7 21:45
Both LPs are less edgely and more relaxing compared to corresponding files from CDs, especially t ...

Your findings on the Eagles Album are almost identical to mine. I used a CDP instead of playing a file.

ackcheng

Guys. Have a listern to the tracks from here
http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_ledr.php
You can even download and convert them to wav to play back. You can hear it above your head and appreciate the height