Linn Klimax DS/1 vs Akurate DS/1 vs Majik DS vs Lumin - 同塲大比拼

raywan

Linn Kinsky is still one of the best on response and neat layout. Hope Linn can improve it further in coming update.

Lumin as many information but reacts relatively slow. I consider the info is too much.

ChorusDS HD is relatively simple but quite good. With the big album art, there are plenty of the information can be seen. It can find songs / albums very fast.

SongBook Lite is nice.

     

After comparison, the Linn Kinsky is still my favorite control point software for my Linn DS.

Even with my large collection of over 3,700 albums, 52,000 tracks, 1,500 album artists, Linn Kinsky can react extremely fast and find what I want quickly.

raywan

jimmypkh 發表於 2013-4-4 20:10
好多謝raywan兄嘅比較，很有趣  

我都希望raywan兄有機會可以比較Aurender同Linn DS。另外Weis ...

如果有 Brother 有 Aurender 或 Weiss MAN301

我也希望可安排 HiFi Gathering 作比試

ccscho

The main difference of Lumin and Linn DS is the DSD playback capability.

The gap in playback performance may be much closer if an SACD is played back in native DSD rather than DSD converted to PCM.   

If you have a lot of SACD and also a PS3 to rip native DSD tracks, it may be still worth to consider DAC with native DSD playback.

raywan

ccscho 發表於 2013-4-4 20:46
The main difference of Lumin and Linn DS is the DSD playback capability.

The gap in playback perfor ...

Our recent tests have already revealed the likely performance of Lumin based on the DAC.  Even with the capability of direct play of DSD, it will not improve a lot.

We have played the ripped DSD (SACD) to 24/88.2 and 24/176.4, the performance of Lumin vs Linn DS is similar.



Lumin 可播 DSD 我的興趣不大     

因為我大部份 SACD (DSD) 已 Rip 作了 24/88.2 or 24/176.4 FLAC 了

手上的已多到聽唔晒

如果 Lumin 的真正播放 Audio Performance 效能很高，另作別論

但 Lumin vs Linn DS 在我家比試後，已知真偽及了解 Lumin 的實際性能



SACD (DSD) --> 24/88.2 or 24/176.4 FLAC HR Audio

raywan

Anyway the direct playing of DSD is just new comer

We may check later whether there are significant difference between the 2 systems:

(1) Direct DSD

(2) DSD --> PCM (WAV / FLAC)

raywan

所有的 Sound Audio Signal Coding 及 Decoding 也會加入大大小小的 Noise 噪音及 Distortion 失真

DSD 理論簡單，但平價及貴價机種在處理和控制噪音及失真也會有所不同

HK$1,000 SACD Player vs HK$100,000 SACD Player ?

Lumin vs Playback Design 處理 DSD <-- 會否一樣質素 ?



現在 DSD Playback 只是新開始

遲 D 真正比較才可決定

到時可能 Linn DS 也可作 DSD 直接播放

新 Player 不用太快跟風跳入去，慢慢睇定 D 才決定會更理想



研究及吸收多 D 知識是有用的

http://dsd-guide.com/sites/defau ... iction%20-%20v2.pdf

jimmypkh

raywan 發表於 2013-4-4 23:46
所有的 Sound Audio Signal Coding 及 Decoding 也會加入大大小小的 Noise 噪音及 D ...

十分同意raywan兄嘅睇法, 其實raywan兄你嘅分享解開左我"係唔係DSD會好聲啲"嘅思迷

始終器材設計, 功力對sound performance極重要.

小弟用緊Aurender. 同raywan兄一樣暫時對DSD興趣不大. 原因有幾:上網買嘅選擇比FLAC少好多, RIP SACD唔係咁易, DSD同SACD一樣好多DAC都玩唔到(唔係純format問題，如Lumin出DSD Digital Out只可經HDMI), 未有一部有吸引力又係射程範圍嘅純transport(特別係睇完raywan兄你嘅分享）....
（純粹個人意見，不同意請見諒別打頭 ）

＂慢慢睇定 D 才決定會更理想＂x 2

raywan

jimmypkh 發表於 2013-4-5 10:33
十分同意raywan兄嘅睇法, 其實raywan兄你嘅分享解開左我"係唔係DSD會好聲啲"嘅思迷  

始終器材 ...

Jimmy 兄

你是用 Aurender 的高手



那個型號 ? W20 or S10 ?

http://www.aurender.com/products.html

有空可作交流

如 Rip SACD 有困難，我的朋友可幫手代你 Rip 至 24/88.2 or 24/176.4

我的 SACD 全是由他協助 Ripping 的，他是 Linn Klimax Renew 用家



Lumin 是強調其另加的功能作讀取 DSD Audio Files

有些 Player 只是內部 DSD --> PCM 而非 Native DSD Decode

不 知 Lumin 是那一類 ?



理論上 PCM (DXD) vs DSD

16/44.1 < 24/96 < 24/192 < 24/352.8 vs 64x DSD < 128x DSD

但每一錄製曲目出來的效果，要實際聆聽完比較才知好壞

PCM 由16/44.1 至 24/96 是大進步，但 24/96 至 24/192 已較難分辨



外國也有人作比較，但只能講 24/96, 24/192 及 64x DSD, 128x DSD 比 16/44.1 好

即 High Resolution Audio (PCM/DSD) 大多優於 Red Book CD (16/44.1)

故 PCM (DXD) vs DSD 那種格式是較優，重播來出的真正音質，是有很多其他因素影響的



"DXD Digital eXtreme Definition vs DSD Direct Stream Digital"

DSD sample rate (64fs, 2.822 MHz), DXD is a PCM signal with 24-bit resolution (8 bits more than the 16 bits used for Red Book CD) sampled at 352.8 kHz – eight times 44.1 kHz, the sampling frequency of Red Book CD. The data rate is 8.4672 Mbit/s per channel – three times that of DSD64. DXD utilizes the vast array of plugins also available to PCM based digital audio workstations

"PCM vs DSD"

Sure CD-"quality" can sound really good but higher bit/sample rate PCM and DSD can sound better. How much better will come down to the quality of the recording, the quality of the transfer, the playback chain, and your listening habits and preferences. Better still, if you value music first, all of this takes its rightful place in line.

--> Plus the sound response quality of the listening environment




http://www.audiostream.com/conte ... 92-64x-dsd-128x-dsd



聽好錄音的 Ripped CD 16/44.1 已是十分好的享受

不一定是高 Word Length (bit) 及 Sampling Frequency (kHz) 的 High Resolution Audio 才好

我有很多 HR Audio (24/96, 24/192)，但聽得最多仍是高質錄音的 Ripped CD Audio (16/44.1)

因此不必去追求 Sampling Frequency 的數字 192kHz, 384kHz, 768kHz ....... 無意義的

好多人聽 16/44.1 CD 用優質 CD Player / Digital Stream Player 已是 High-end 了



最基本是

有最好硬件加最好軟件

在你的家中環境，可否完美地重播原樂曲 ?

都係攪好自己家中的基本 --> Room Acoustic (Room Treatment) 至為重要

smalltiger

very detailed and impressive report on famous music players available in market . Really hope to include Burmester and Weiss players for comparison . Looking forward to know the differences . Thanks!

jimmypkh

raywan 發表於 2013-4-5 12:41
Jimmy 兄

你是用 Aurender 的高手

Ray兄，我係新手初歌一名，部Aurender S10只係用左個幾月 有時間唔介意跟你學下野

當時用左Squeezebox Touch做Transport年幾，身痕想upgrade。心中有幾個選擇: Lumim, Linn ADS, Weiss MAN301同Aurender。我有部自己好鍾意嘅DAC所以只想要部淨Transport。Lumin嘅DSD功能唔吸引我。Linn ADS要用本身DAC所以放棄左。Weiss俾多啲錢要個Slot-in CD唔值。所以最後選擇有個靚時鐘嘅Aurender S10。呢個upgrade我覺得好值  不過我都好想知道佢地之間嘅差距。

好錄音真係好重要。其實如果錄音時冇用到SACS/DSD嘅優點，咁SACS/DSD同CD/PCM分别有幾多? 又有幾多碟錄音時係會用到呢?

obee

個雞棚俾 raywan 兄踢爆左

raywan

smalltiger 發表於 2013-4-5 14:04
very detailed and impressive report on famous music players available in market . Really ho ...

smalltiger hing

Are you using Burmester and Weiss players ?

smalltiger

raywan 發表於 2013-4-5 17:20
smalltiger hing

Are you using Burmester and Weiss players ?

Ching , I am only Weiss Medea and ML32 user and just curious to know the difference between Linn KDS/1 and MAN 301!

raywan

jimmypkh 發表於 2013-4-5 15:27
Ray兄，我係新手初歌一名，部Aurender S10只係用左個幾月  有時間唔介意跟你學下野

...

Jimmy 兄

我未有机會見識過 Aurender S10 所以也想知道其特性，有時間可再交流

你的 DAC 是那品牌及型號 ?

如只用 Transport， Linn Majik DS 也是可以了，佢有 Digital Out



好錄音確實是最重要。

其實如果錄音時冇用到 DSD ，只是由 PCM --> DSD ，成效是疑問

況且現時好多 SACD 都係 PCM 母帶轉 DSD 制作

所以 SACD 好唔好聲，係後期制作大於 DSD 技術本身

故此用 SACD Rip 岀至 DSF (DSD), DIFF (DSD), DoP (DSD) 去播放，真實際音質與原曲，可能已有分別



所以理論上 PCM 錄音，以 PCM 去播放

而 DSD  錄音，以 DSD 去播放

轉換格式次數減少，理論上音質更接近原曲



但實際音質如何，有多大分別，待日後詳細比較才可有定論

現在 DSD Player 剛出，只是 Marketing 賣點，最好靜觀其變，待稍後才考慮及作合適選擇

真 DSD 的 Studio Master 極少，何不暫聽真正的 PCM Studio Master (24/96, 24/192)

Rip SACD 內的 DSD 至 FLAC/WAV 也可用現今 Digital Stream Player 播放

何況從 SACD rip 出的 DSD，也不一定較 CD Rip 出好聽

衰聲的 SACD 也有不少

raywan

smalltiger 發表於 2013-4-5 17:28
Ching  , I am only Weiss Medea and ML32 user and just curious to know the difference betw ...

Smalltiger hing

We both are using Mark Levinson No.32 Preamp

Before changing to Linn Klimax DS, I am using Mark Levinson Reference Transport No.31.5 and Processor No.30.6





You are using Weiss Medea DAC what is your source player ?



I also look forward to audit the new Weiss MAN301 to appreciate its performance level.

Hope I can identify some brother who using it and conduct audition comparison.

smalltiger

Yes! both We are ML32 users . I use EMM CDSA SE to play SACD and it as transport to connect Medea for CD. Hope I have a chance to audit your great gears!

dominiquetu

raywan 發表於 2013-4-4 10:15
Lumin 的初推售價是二萬尾，以性能表現及做工，是物有所值

但 Lumin 現在售價是三 ...

Raywan hing,

Thanks for your detail report + A/B comparison.

I only listened Lumin once for 15mins and I am 100% sure that it is not the level of Kilmax or even Akurate..... BUT without an A/B testing, I think it is not fare to Lumin and have never publish my comment.

So happy to read your detail review. Well done ! !!

ccscho

raywan 發表於 2013-4-4 20:53
Our recent tests have already revealed the likely performance of Lumin based ...

Dear Raymond c-hing,

I do appreciate your detail test report as it's valuable for anyone who considers these 4 players.  However I do hold slightly different opinion.

This is not for argument and the end result may be still the same, I just hope you can do some test with DSD playback also.

My reasons are,
Example 1:
If you use a Playback Designs MPS-5 to playback both DSD and 24/176.2 (converted from DSD), will there be no difference?

Example 2:
If you have bought a SACD player, will you play back the CD layer of a SACD?

Honestly, no one expect the Lumin to play back same PCM track can win Linn Klimax DS, however HiFi fans would still like to know if Lumin play DSD can get closer to Linn Klimax.  Actually this is a question often seen like should I buy a 10K SACD player or 10K pure CD player when I have some SACD, so please do consider my point of view and see no offense.

- from a poor but curious guy who does not have ability to buy any of the above 4 network media players

higo

Dear Raymond,

Thanks for sharing your report.

It appears that your report did not reveal the circumstances under which the tests were conducted.  Specifically, it was not clear whether the comparisons were indeed "blind" tests.  Further, could you please elaborate whether your findings were the collective decisions from a group of attendees or solely based on the personal assessment of an individual?

Many thanks in advance.

raywan

smalltiger 發表於 2013-4-5 17:57
Yes! both We are ML32 users . I use EMM CDSA SE to play SACD and it as transport to connect ...

Hi smalltiger hing

You do have reasonably good gears for playing your SACD and CD:

(1) EMM CDSA SE SACD Player for SACD
(2) Weiss Medea DAC for CD

I believe the next step that you are going to consider is entering the latest digital streaming / network music playing for both SACD and CD as well as the High Resolution Audio.

Anyway, it is good nowadays that there are plenty of the HiFi manufacturers also moving in this direction and produce quite a number of equipment for your selection.

Two years ago, while I considered to switch from playing CD (Mark Levinsion) and SACD (Marantz) to Digital Stream Audio, there were not many high quality choice --> Linn and Naim.

After conducting series of showroom auditions, I purchased the flagship network player of Linn Klimax DS.  I used the Mark Levinson and Marantz as CD/SACD Player side-by-side with Klimax DS for over six months.  Eventually, I decided to let go both Mark Levinson and Marantz due to obvious reasons of better sonic performance and ease of use in handling large collections of CD/SACD together with the capability of playing high quality Studio Master HR Audio of 24/96 & 24/192.

I do hope with more HiFi manufacturers can produce better network players to enable us have a much wider selection on enjoying music with High Resolution Audio.