NAS Streaming可以比CD靚聲嗎？CH Precision C1來告訴你

sugarman88

charleslinnfans 發表於 2014-7-21 16:35
I use switch hub instead of going through router because of avoid wifi router so much noise. So NA ...

If your wifi router is connected with your switch, then it is almost the same as using the wifi router switch port as they are all connected within the same LAN. For adding a pair of fiber converters before your player (Linn DS), it will filter our the noise within your LAN as those fiber ports transfer in light and the last mile to your player should be cleaner. Therefore, many of us found the background is darker, more quiet.
Again, I can only speak for my personal experience.

adyc

里克1 發表於 2014-7-21 16:27
分別發生在rip碟, rip 咗做file 之後copy 應不會有改變.

Ripping from cdrom to harddisk is also digital to digital operation. Of course, there can be reading errors by laser. That's why all the ripping programs have reread functions to make sure the ripped data are consistent. Furthermore, one can use accuraterip database to compare one ripped copy to the others one. Since this involves many brands of computers and cdrom drives, is it pure luck that I always come to same checksum as the rest?

Fromw Wikipedia:

A checksum or hash sum is a small-size datum computed from an arbitrary block of digital data for the purpose of detecting errors which may have been introduced during its transmission or storage.

adyc

CKKeung 發表於 2014-7-21 16:38
Martin Colloms and members of the HiFi Critic forum in UK say that linear PSUs for Optical writers ...

Martin Colloms is just one data point. How about other audiophiles cannot detect such a difference? Let me be clear:

1. bit-perfect playback can be different because of noises can transmitted to your dac and ultimately to your loudspeakers.

2. bit-perfect copy is not affected by computer noise.

里克1

adyc 發表於 2014-7-21 17:08
Ripping from cdrom to harddisk is also digital to digital operation. Of course, there can be readi ...

checksum... 你咁講都有道理.
咁樣就係rip 碟software 做成分別.
rip CD software發展完善, data充足所以rip 出嚟的file 質素好.
但rip SACD 得無揀, 所以rip 出嚟質素差D.

alonIV

里克1 發表於 2014-7-21 17:26
checksum... 你咁講都有道理.
咁樣就係rip 碟software 做成分別.
rip CD software發展完善, data充足所 ...

rip sacd出黎既data同隻碟里面既唔一樣？

里克1

alonIV 發表於 2014-7-21 17:38
rip sacd出黎既data同隻碟里面既唔一樣？

我都想知.
rip SACD 得個舊版PS3 同個簡單software可用, 起碼唔見佢好似DBpoweramp 咁check accurate. rip 做ISO 再extract 做 dff 檔.  過程會唔會完美冇error?

adyc

里克1 發表於 2014-7-21 17:26
checksum... 你咁講都有道理.
咁樣就係rip 碟software 做成分別.
rip CD software發展完善, data充足所 ...

Just to state my point. When we are young and use cassette tapes, we always copy from one cassette tape to a new cassette tape. This definitely not the same copy as the cassette recorder noise can be written together the signal to the new cassette tape because cassette tape is analog medium. Actually, if one repeats the same exercise many many times, the last cassette tape will sound very different from the original cassette tape because of the noises build up.

If one believes that this also applies to digital file, one can copy the file back and forth 1000 times (easily done using a script). If computer noises are written into the file, the 1000th copy checksum will be different from the original file.

adyc

里克1 發表於 2014-7-21 17:49
我都想知.
rip SACD 得個舊版PS3 同個簡單software可用, 起碼唔見佢好似DBpoweramp 咁check accurate. ri ...

You are right. Actually, hopefully, one day there would be a SACD database so that we can compared ripped SACD to each other.

Audiophilelp

CKKeung 發表於 2014-7-21 16:38
Martin Colloms and members of the HiFi Critic forum in UK say that linear PSUs for Optical writers ...

I like this topic, C Hing please share your thoughts and reference!!
I always have such questions as how "noises" get into digital process if it is supposed to be error free or bit perfect, no matter in ripping / files copying / data transfer in the LAN.
I think ripping and playback are different issues, i.e. the noises and errors involved should be totally different and easily confused.

Ripping should be easy to detect errors, such as accurate-rip, comparing bit by bit with files from different softwares/ cdroms / computers etc., so how can "noises" get into accurate files? If 2 files are identical but from different sources, why sound different if using the same playback machine?? Would file copying and storage affect the sound?

For playback, I think it is more prone to different factors to affect the sound even from the same files. But again, not at the level of digital. Even with different LAN cables/NAS/LPS, there are mechanisms to ensure accurate data package transfer. Jitter and noises may play a role here to affect sound but how to measure/ quantify them?

Experiment with ears are too subjective. Even for the same system, same file, same place, the same person may perceive differently. If I am tired, the sound would be less good to me.

A very good topic to discuss! Some people have different ideas and there are full of controversies.

For myself, I don't have answer in mind. I don't have a conclusion even with "experiments". But I always think the best principle is to shorten the signal pathway to reduce the areas subject to different interference/noises/error.

But this maybe the fun with hifi / CAS!

CKKeung

adyc 發表於 2014-7-21 17:15
Martin Colloms is just one data point. How about other audiophiles cannot detect such a difference ...

But how about other audiophiles that can detect a difference? Pure hallucination?  haha  

If some brothers cannot detect the difference in their systems, let it be 囉。

If some other brothers find that there is an effect, then by all means do the ripping with their tweakings 囉。

This is an open forum and differing opinions/experience is norm.  
Why spending our time on arguing?  

Audiophilelp

CKKeung 發表於 2014-7-21 18:07
But how about other audiophiles that can detect a difference? Pure hallucination?  haha  

If some ...

At the end one should make the final judgement himself as listening to music is very personal! You pay for the music, if good to you then go ahead.

diamondblack

adyc 發表於 2014-7-21 16:01
I have experimented many times. Using laptop, desktop, usb cdrom, in built dvd drive always produc ...

Instead of ripping across different machines, have you tried ripping the same cd using the same machine but with a different power supply, such as instead of using the brick supplied together with the laptop, using a linear power supply?

alonIV

已經有人用電腦做過對比,cd係一Q樣,sacd都係一Q樣,上網搵下啦

adyc

CKKeung 發表於 2014-7-21 18:07
But how about other audiophiles that can detect a difference? Pure hallucination?  haha  

If some ...

There are too many snake oils in Hifi industry. It gives HiFi a bad name. I do believe cable make a difference as it may transmit noises in different levels and different bandwidths. However, I cannot see how a $20 LAN cable transmits an digitial file for storage (I only say storage and not playback) worse than AQ diamond LAN cable.

There is no point arguing if one does not accept two files are the same with the same checksum.

adyc

diamondblack 發表於 2014-7-21 20:20
Instead of ripping across different machines, have you tried ripping the same cd using the same ma ...

How about I rip the CD with a laptop using battery? There is no switching power supply. It is as DC as you can get.

Bubble

alonIV 發表於 2014-7-21 20:33
已經有人用電腦做過對比,cd係一Q樣,sacd都係一Q樣,上網搵下啦

想問清楚：
即是cd ripped出來同原cd一樣?
Sacd ripped出來同原sacd一樣?

Bubble

adyc 發表於 2014-7-21 20:54
There are too many snake oils in Hifi industry. It gives HiFi a bad name. I do believe cable make  ...

Adyc 兄， thank you so much putting information to this track.

May I try to wrap up what your points are:
(1) Ripping should not lead to modification to the ripped data file
(2) Noise only occurs in the process of digital to analog conversion
You can add if any missing.

咁想請教streaming的時候當data由NAS傳送去streamer, 在做conversion的前一刻應該都仍然係digital來，汚染就會在這一段發生呢？這個時候$8000 AQ diamond就會有所作用，同$20 Lan cable就有分別了，對嗎？

alonIV

Bubble 發表於 2014-7-21 21:31
想問清楚：
即是cd ripped出來同原cd一樣?
Sacd ripped出來同原sacd一樣?

無錯,data一樣,上網搵下,大陸forum都有人做過實驗,不過唔知點解,好多人都接受唔到rip出黎係一樣哩個事實

Bubble

alonIV 發表於 2014-7-21 22:13
無錯,data一樣,上網搵下,大陸forum都有人做過實驗,不過唔知點解,好多人都接受唔到rip出黎係一樣哩個事實{ ...

認為data一樣的人掌握的理據是checksum一樣；
雖然checksum一樣，但認為data仍然不一樣的人可能掌握住更多其他的理據。

alonIV

Bubble 發表於 2014-7-21 22:31
認為data一樣的人掌握的理據是checksum一樣；
雖然checksum一樣，但認為data仍然不一樣的人可能掌握住更 ...

係呀,認為data唔一樣果d人通常都唔信數碼技術,話音響係用耳去聽,佢地聽到正常人無辦法聽到既野,好恐怖